Arben Xhaferi, president of the Democratic Party of Albanians, DPA, a

partner in Macedonia's ruling government coalition, explains to IWPR how

immediate constitutional changes are imperative for a peaceful resolution to

the current crisis

IWPR: How do you explain the outbreak of violence in Macedonia?

Arben Xhaferi: I explain this as ethnic competition: to whom does the state

belong?

Macedonians want to create the state as their own ethnic property. Albanians

deny this, and thus we have conflict.

IWPR: After the elections in 1998, there seemed to be a new will to effect

real change for Albanians. So, why are we seeing such conflict in Macedonia

today?

AX: In 1998 we started to amend the constitution of Macedonia, which

describes Macedonia as the state of Macedonians - where the official

language is Macedonian, the official alphabet, Cyrillic, and the official

religion, Orthodox. Albanians are very angry about this kind of

possessiveness, but we haven't gone to the source of the crisis, the

constitution itself.

IWPR: Isn't it more likely that changes could be achieved by politicians

like yourself rather than NLA fighters?

AX: I'd been working to address the consequences but not the source of the

conflict. I did not succeed in changing the constitution. There is no

readiness to do this among the Macedonians. My vision was first to integrate

Macedonia into the European Community and after that to introduce European

standards. In this way I saw a real possibility to change the constitution.

IWPR: So, you were ready to wait?

AX: I was prepared to run a long race. But others wanted to sprint.

IWPR: Some Macedonian commentators have argued that the real initiators of

the violence are criminals acting to protect their black-market trading

interests. Would you agree?

AX: I don't believe this. Albanian idealists are behind this uprising and

their leaders are not involved in criminal activities. Maybe, some soldiers

have a criminal background, but they are not playing an important role in

the decision-making process.

IWPR: And many of them are from Kosovo?

AX: During the Kosovo war there were more Albanians from Macedonia in the

KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army) in Kosovo than there are Kosovars in Macedonia

now. There may be a few Kosovars, but more than 90 per cent [of the members

of the NLA] are Albanians from Macedonia.

IWPR: You have said that you have indirect contact with the leaders of the

NLA.

AX: I must have contact with them to get them to put down their weapons and

give dialogue a chance.

IWPR: Are you saying a decision was made not to fight back the Macedonian

government offensive?

AX: Yes. They put down their arms because of pressure from politicians in

Albania, Kosovo and Macedonia, and owing to pressure from NATO, the European

Community and the United States. Javier Solana, by coming to Tetovo, also

opened up hope of making changes in the state through negotiation.

IWPR: Did Solana make any promises to the Albanians?

AX: No. But he started to talk about the need for reforms in society, the

need for dialogue to put down weapons. And everybody from the Albanian side

agreed. Now the international community has handed over a clockwork orange.

But we are not able take it apart. We do not have the skills for that. We

need experts from the EC, NATO and the OSCE.

IWPR: You have said that you do not plan to go to Luxembourg for the April 9

signing of the stability agreement with the European Union unless there is

clear indication of progress in the dialogue.

AX: We had a conflict, a war in Macedonia. We created unbelievable pressure

on the fighters in the hills to put down the weapons. But this came with the

condition that negotiations would start.

Now there are no such indications. The president has called us in for

coffee-table discussions. But he doesn't have any mandate to solve the

questions. And discussion in the parliament will create more tensions than

solutions.

IWPR: What kind of dialogue would you like to see?

AX: In 1991 the Macedonian majority wrote the constitution against the will

of the Albanian minority. Since then, we have had permanent discussion and

permanent conflict over the concept of the state.

But the concept of the state - the constitution of the state - is

incompatible with multi-ethnic reality. So the question now is whether we

change reality through ethnic cleansing or by changing the concept of the

state?

IWPR: You have made seemingly conflicting statements over recent weeks, at

times making you seem very close to the government and sometimes implying

that you might even leave it. At times you have been very critical of the

NLA and sometimes you suggest they have a "right" to continue should

negotiations break down. Has your position wavered?

AX: No. This is a false interpretation. I never accepted fighting as an

instrument to achieve political goals. I am for the political option. I am

not a militarist.

But one thing that is very important to point out: the demands of the

fighters are the same as ours.

IWPR: You have said that if there isn't movement on the key issues, you

expect many young men will join the NLA?

AX: Yes. Many have friends on the hills. Others have cousins. And if the

Macedonian authorities are cruel and rigid during their offensives, it might

well cause other Albanians to join the NLA.

IWPR: Do you think the NLA should be directly represented in any talks?

AX: For me it would be easier. But I do not want to formally request this,

as this would provoke a negative reaction in the international community. I

will be very tough in negotiations.

IWPR: Macedonians demand that Albanians confirm the integrity and unity of

the state. If you do not have the fighters in the talks, how can you provide

such a statement?

AX: The Macedonians need the Albanians to make the same statement three

times before breakfast and three times after. We are for the integrity of

the state. I am tired of giving the same declaration.

IWPR: What are the essential changes negotiations need to deliver to ensure

that fighting will not re-start?

AX: The first must be the constitution as the initiator of the crisis. The

second is the proportion of Albanian representation in state institutions.

The third is the census.

IWPR: You now seem to be suggesting that these things need to be tackled

within perhaps as short a period as one month. Is this right?

AX: We must be constructive. Albanian political parties are ready to fight

against the radical demands of other Albanians for destruction, for

federalisation and cantonisation. We are ready to continue without weapons

and to keep the integrity and the unity of the state. On the other hand,

Macedonian extremism is enshrined in the constitution. They

institutionalised their extremism.

Every state and society has their radical elements but democratic forces

must work openly against that.

IWPR: The preamble of the constitution refers to Macedonia as a state of

"Macedonians and others". Would you consider the formula, rather than adding

Albanians, to take out all mention of nationalities, so that Macedonia would

be a civic state. You would get rid of the Macedonian claim to national

primacy, but you would also set aside the demand from some Albanians that

both major communities should be declared equal constituent nations.

AX: I am afraid that the multi-ethnic states cannot be pure civic states. In

the end you must pose the question: who is civic? In which language is he

talking? If the Macedonians want to create a civic society, but the civilian

is Macedonian, speaking Macedonian language, we must again ask the question,

who is he?

IWPR: But will you nevertheless be willing to consider a concession on this

point, because as you know the argument for adding Albanians into the

preamble makes Macedonians nervous? If there is to be a change, they would

prefer it to be towards a document which is fully civic.

AX: Yes. If it is possible to resolve the question of language through other

legislation then we will accept the definition of Macedonia as a civic

society.

IWPR: In such a dynamic situation, is there potential for a realignment of

Albanian politics? Could this change or even threaten the position of the

democratic parties, even including yourself, as the NLA make radical

demands?

AX: We will end up creating two groups stubbornly defending their positions

along ethnic lines. Everybody will polarize around their own ethnic group.

But we want to create a bridge. We want to keep the middle ground but our

position is very fragile.

IWPR: How serious is the risk of war now?

AX: Very serious. I am very concerned about the future ethnic polarisation.

War in Macedonia can be a regional war because the country is in the centre

of the Balkans. We can't have a local war as in Bosnia or Kosovo. It would

be a multilateral war because of the interests of the Greeks, Bulgarians,

Serbs and Albanians.

IWPR: Do you think that the EU and NATO representatives accept your view

that changing the constitution is critical?

AX: They understand but they do not want to be involved in an internal

affair in Macedonia. They want to test Macedonian maturity to solve domestic

problems. They want to use this crisis as a test for us all, to see if we're

ready to join the European Community.

IWPR: Are you an optimist or a pessimist?

AX: I am an optimist in a panic. I am waiting in panic to see what will be

next. I hope that the Macedonians will be more reasonable and will

understand that it is in the interests of the state to open dialogue.

IWPR: You just came from meeting President Boris Trajkovski. What is his

view?

AX: He does not want to take responsibility for these deep changes. No one

is ready to take this responsibility, to steer the Macedonian ship into calm

waters.

IWPR: Not even one Macedonian politician?

AX: No.

IWPR: Some Macedonian opinion-formers seem to accept the idea of a change in

the preamble to the constitution.

AX: They are not active enough. Who is active? The nationalists in the

Academy of Sciences, who say not to touch the constitution. This is the

reason I am talking about opportunism.

IWPR: What do you think of the recent arrest by the government of Albanians

in Tetovo suspected as dangerous elements?

AX: The logic of militarisation, the logic of punishing problems, will lead

to more complications. We suggest to democratise the crisis, to demilitarise

society and to give amnesty to everyone who was involved in this crisis.

Only the soft approach, only the political approach, only the liberalisation

of the crisis and the society, can bring lasting peace in Macedonia.

Interview conducted by IWPR Trustee and Guardian foreign affairs columnist

Martin Woollacott, Executive Director Anthony Borden and IWPR contributor

Veton Latifi.