Published by: World Tibet Network News, Thursday, March 28, 1996

MARCH 16, 1996

TITLE= HUMAN RIGHTS IN TIBET

EDITOR=OFFICE OF POLICY - 619-0037

ANNCR: ON THE LINE -- A DISCUSSION OF UNITED STATES

POLICIES AND CONTEMPORARY ISSUES.

THIS WEEK, "HUMAN RIGHTS IN TIBET." HERE IS

YOUR HOST, ROBERT REILLY.

HOST: HELLO AND WELCOME TO ON THE LINE.

THE U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT RECENTLY RELEASED ITS

ANNUAL SURVEY OF HUMAN RIGHTS AROUND THE WORLD.

ONE OF THE WORST ABUSERS OF HUMAN RIGHTS IS

CHINA. AND REPRESSION BY THE CHINESE COMMUNIST

GOVERNMENT IS ESPECIALLY HARSH IN TIBET. DURING

THE PAST YEAR, CHINESE GOVERNMENT AUTHORITIES

CONTINUED TO COMMIT WIDESPREAD HUMAN RIGHTS

ABUSES IN TIBET. THESE ABUSES INCLUDE TORTURE,

ARBITRARY ARREST, DETENTION WITHOUT PUBLIC

TRIAL, LONG DETENTION OF TIBETAN NATIONALISTS

FOR PEACEFULLY EXPRESSING THEIR POLITICAL VIEWS,

AND INTENSIFIED CONTROLS ON FREEDOM OF SPEECH

AND THE PRESS, PARTICULARLY FOR ETHNIC TIBETANS.

JOINING ME TODAY TO DISCUSS HUMAN RIGHTS AND

TIBET ARE THREE EXPERTS. GARE SMITH IS DEPUTY

ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE FOR DEMOCRACY,

HUMAN RIGHTS AND LABOR. LODI GYARI IS PRESIDENT

OF THE INTERNATIONAL CAMPAIGN FOR TIBET AND

SPECIAL ENVOY OF THE DALAI LAMA. AND GENDUN

RINCHEN IS A TIBETAN HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVIST WHO

HAS SPENT TIME IN PRISON IN TIBET FOR ATTEMPTING

TO RELEASE A HUMAN RIGHTS REPORT. GENTLEMEN,

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

MR. SMITH, PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON AND VICE

PRESIDENT AL GORE HAVE MET WITH THE DALAI LAMA

SEVERAL TIMES, AND ON THOSE OCCASIONS, EXPRESSED

THE CONTINUING INTEREST OF THE UNITED STATES IN,

NOT ONLY THE PRESERVATION, BUT THE DEVELOPMENT

OF TIBETAN LANGUAGE, RELIGION AND CULTURE. FROM

WHERE DOES THAT FUNDAMENTAL INTEREST SPRING?

SMITH: WELL, BOB, PRESIDENT CLINTON AND VICE PRESIDENT

GORE, LIKE MANY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS AND MANY

AMERICAN CITIZENS, HAVE ENORMOUS RESPECT FOR HIS

HOLINESS, THE DALAI LAMA -- HIS MORAL

LEADERSHIP, HIS SPIRITUAL TEACHINGS. TIBETAN

BUDDHISM IS ONE OF THE GREAT RELIGIONS OF THE

WORLD, AND TIBET'S UNIQUE CULTURAL AND RELIGIOUS

HERITAGE IS MARVELOUS. AND WE IN THE

ADMINISTRATION SEEK, BY ALL MEANS, TO PRESERVE

AND PROTECT IT.

HOST: LET'S TALK ABOUT THE CURRENT HUMAN RIGHTS

SITUATION IN TIBET TODAY.

GYARI: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT WE

ARE QUITE PLEASED WITH THE STATE DEPARTMENT'S

HUMAN RIGHTS REPORT. PARTICULARLY THIS YEAR, IT

IS MUCH MORE DETAILED. IT DEALS WITH THE CORE

OF THE ISSUE MUCH MORE INTENSELY THAN IT DID

BEFORE.

HOST: WHAT IS THE CORE ISSUE?

GYARI: THIS IS THE SECOND TIME THAT THE STATE

DEPARTMENT BROUGHT OUT A REPORT ON TIBET WITH A

SEPARATE SUBTITLE. IN THE PAST, THE STATE

DEPARTMENT USED TO INCLUDE THE HUMAN RIGHTS

SITUATION IN TIBET WITH ITS OVERALL REPORT ON

CHINA. SO, ON THAT ALSO WE ARE VERY HAPPY,

THOUGH WE WOULD LIKE VERY MUCH TO SEE, IN THE

NEAR FUTURE, THE STATE DEPARTMENT BRING OUT A

SEPARATE COUNTRY REPORT DEALING SPECIFICALLY

WITH TIBET.

HOST: WHY DO YOU THINK THERE IS A SEPARATE SECTION ON

TIBET?

GYARI: WELL, OBVIOUSLY THE AMERICAN SECRETARY WOULD

LIKE TO DO IT.

HOST: ALL RIGHT, WELL LET'S ASK MR. SMITH THAT

QUESTION.

SMITH: WELL, THE ADMINISTRATION'S DEEPLY CONCERNED

ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN TIBET. AS WE

INDICATED IN THE HUMAN RIGHTS REPORT THIS YEAR,

THE HUMAN RIGHTS SITUATION GOT WORSE, RATHER

THAN BETTER.

HOST: IN WHAT WAYS?

SMITH: IN ADDITION TO VIOLATIONS OF FUNDAMENTALLY

RECOGNIZED HUMAN RIGHTS, THERE IS TORTURE,

THERE'S BEEN RAPE, THERE'S BEEN LONG DETENTION

WITHOUT TRIAL. BUT MORE SPECIFICALLY, AND TO

OUR PARTICULAR CONCERN, THERE ARE GRAVE

VIOLATIONS OF RELIGIOUS FREEDOMS. AND I'D CITE

JUST THREE OF THEM. ONE, THE CHINESE ANNOUNCED

THAT THEY WERE LIMITING THE NUMBER OF MONKS WHO

COULD WORK IN MONASTERIES. NOW, IN FACT,

THEY'VE DONE THIS FOR MANY YEARS, BUT IT IS

SIGNIFICANT THAT THEY ADMITTED THAT THAT WAS A

GOVERNMENT POLICY THIS YEAR. SECONDARILY, THEY

LIMITED THE NUMBER OF MONASTERIES THAT COULD

EXIST IN TIBET. AND THIRDLY, IN A VERY

HIGH-HANDED APPROACH, THEY STEPPED IN AND

CHALLENGED THE DALAI LAMA'S DESIGNATION OF THE

PANCHEN LAMA, THE SECOND HIGHEST FIGURE IN THE

TIBETAN RELIGION. WE WERE DEEPLY CONCERNED BY

ALL OF THESE ACTIVITIES.

GYARI: THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT. ON THAT, I WOULD LIKE

TO ADD THAT EVEN THOUGH THE STATE DEPARTMENT

DEALT WITH THE FACTUAL ASPECT ABOUT THE CHINESE

GOVERNMENT'S GROSS VIOLATION OF, NOT ONLY HUMAN

RIGHTS OF THE TIBETAN PEOPLE, BUT THE CORE

BELIEF OF THE TIBETAN PEOPLE. CHOOSING THE

PANCHEN LAMA IS A CORE TO OUR BELIEF. SO, I

FEEL THAT THE STATE DEPARTMENT HAS, IN MY

OPINION, FAILED TO CONDEMN THAT IN MUCH STRONGER

TERMS. THAT THEY DEALT WITH THE FACTUAL ASPECT,

BUT I WAS HOPING THAT THEY WOULD CONDEMN IT MUCH

MORE.

HOST: LET ME, FIRST OF ALL BEFORE WE GET INTO THIS

PARTICULAR QUESTION ABOUT THE SUCCESSION OF THE

PANCHEN LAMA, PUT THE QUESTION OF THE

SUPPRESSION OF RELIGIOUS FREEDOM IN TIBET IN

SOME PERSPECTIVE. FOR INSTANCE, WHAT, SINCE

CHINA HAS OCCUPIED TIBET, HAS BEEN THE EXTENT OF

THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLES AND THE SACRED

SITES?

GYARI: WELL, I THINK MY FRIEND HERE WILL BE ABLE TO

TELL YOU MORE. BUT, YOU KNOW, THE CHINESE HAVE

DESTROYED MORE THAN SIX THOUSAND OF OUR

MONASTERIES. WHEN I SAY MONASTERIES, I'M NOT

JUST TALKING ABOUT THE PLACE WHERE PEOPLE GO AND

PRAY. OUR MONASTERIES WERE UNIVERSITIES. THEY

ARE LIBRARIES. THE INSTITUTIONS WERE THE CORE

OF OUR CULTURE AS PRESERVED. SO, MORE THAN SIX

THOUSAND OF SUCH MONASTERIES HAVE BEEN TOTALLY

DESTROYED.

HOST: IN FACT, I THINK ONLY SOME, WHAT, TWELVE OR

THIRTEEN WERE LEFT STANDING.

GYARI: THE LATE PANCHEN LAMA, BEFORE HIS SO-CALLED

DEATH, HE CAME UP WITH A STATEMENT SAYING THAT,

INCLUDING POTALA PALACE, NONE OF THESE RELIGIOUS

INSTITUTIONS SURVIVED FROM BEING RANSACKED BY

THE CHINESE MILITARY, OR THE CHINESE RED GUARDS.

HOST: WELL, AS A MATTER OF FACT, THE PEOPLE'S

LIBERATION ARMY IN ONE INSTANCE DOCUMENTED THEIR

OWN BRUTALITY. I BELIEVE IT WAS IN 1988, WHEN

THEY INVADED ONE OF THE MONASTERIES. CAN YOU

TELL US ABOUT THAT, GENDUN RINCHEN, SINCE YOU

WERE IN TIBET AT THAT TIME?

RINCHEN: YES, AT THAT TIME, I WAS IN LHASA, THE CAPITAL

OF TIBET, AND LATER I FOUND THAT THE PEOPLE'S

LIBERATION ARMY HAD BEEN ORDERED TO RANSACK THE

MONASTERY, AND NEARBY ALL THE RESIDENTIAL AREAS

WHERE TIBETANS LIVE. AND SECONDLY, THEY WERE

ORDERED TO COME DOWN ON ANY [PEOPLE WHO LOOKED

LIKE TIBETANS].

HOST: BUT THE MONKS WERE BEATEN INSIDE THE MONASTERY?

RINCHEN: AND THE MILITARY RANSACKED THE MONASTERY AND

THEY BEAT UP EVERYONE, WHETHER ONE WAS A

PARTICIPANT IN A DEMONSTRATION OR NOT. AND,

HARDLY ANY MONK IN THAT VERY [JOKANG TEMPLE]

TEMPLE, WHICH IS THE HOLIEST TEMPLE IN TIBET,

ACTUALLY -- THAT TEMPLE HAS BEEN THERE SINCE THE

SEVENTH CENTURY. AND LATER ON, I FOUND THAT

EVEN THE CHINESE POLICE ORDERED ALL THOSE

TIBETANS THAT HAPPENED TO BE IN THE

DEMONSTRATION SHOULD BE ARRESTED. AND I FOUND

THAT THEY HAD TO ARREST ALMOST, MAYBE FIVE TO

SIX THOUSAND TIBETANS, IF THEY WANTED TO DO IT.

SO, LATER ON, THEY STARTED SCREAMING, AFTER

HAVING ARRESTED FOUR TO FIVE THOUSAND TIBETANS

IN A TIME OF TWO MONTHS.

HOST: AND THIS KIND OF RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION HAS ONLY

GOTTEN WORSE IN THE PAST YEAR, MR. SMITH?

SMITH: WELL, I'M PLEASED TO SAY THAT WE'RE NOT FAMILIAR

WITH INCIDENTS LIKE THAT THIS PAST YEAR. BUT,

CERTAINLY THIS YEAR HAS BEEN WORSE THAN THE

PREVIOUS YEAR. 1995 WAS MORE REPRESSIVE THAN

1994, AS I SAID. THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT

THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT ACTUALLY ANNOUNCED ITS

POLICY OF LIMITING THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO

COULD STUDY IN MONASTERIES, WHICH IS, AS YOU CAN

IMAGINE, A DEEPLY DISTURBING TREND.

HOST: AND A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF WHAT OTHERWISE WOULD

BE TAKING PLACE IN TERMS OF THE NUMBER OF MONKS

AND NUNS?

GYARI: YES, THIS IS ONE REASON THAT, FOR INSTANCE, NOW

THE ACTUAL TIBET CULTURE, TIBET RELIGION LIVES

OUTSIDE OF TIBET. NOW WE HAVE MORE THAN

SEVEN-THOUSAND YOUNG MONKS AND NUNS FLEEING

TIBET AND COMING TO INDIA AND NEPAL WHERE WE

HAVE CREATED OUR INSTITUTIONS. PRECISELY AS MR.

SMITH HAS SAID, THERE IS NO POSSIBILITY FOR THEM

TO STUDY IN THE TRADITIONAL WAY IN OUR

MONASTERIES. THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE ALLOWED INTO

THOSE MONASTERIES IS LIMITED. IN FACT TODAY,

MOST OF THE YOUNG MONKS AND NUNS WHO WANTED TO

STUDY ARE FLEEING TIBET TO COME AND STUDY. BUT

IF I CAN SAY THAT SINCE WE ARE DEALING WITH THE

STATE DEPARTMENT HUMAN RIGHTS REPORT, ONE AREA

THAT I AGAIN HOPE THAT THE STATE DEPARTMENT WILL

PAY MORE ATTENTION TO IS THE POPULATION

TRANSFER. IT DEALS WITH THAT MUCH MORE THAN IT

DID BEFORE.

HOST: BY THAT YOU MEAN BRINGING IN HAN CHINESE INTO

TIBET.

GYARI: IN A WAY WE ARE BEING REDUCED TO A MINORITY.

WE'RE BEING MARGINALIZED ECONOMICALLY,

POLITICALLY, IN EVERY RESPECT.

HOST: THIS RAISES THE QUESTION I WOULD LIKE TO ASK ALL

OF YOU AND THAT IS WHAT IS THE ULTIMATE GOAL OF

CHINESE POLICY IN TIBET, CONSIDERING THE

RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION, THEIR INTERFERENCE IN THE

SELECTION IN THE SUCCESSOR OF THE PANCHEN LAMA,

BY THE IMMIGRATION OF HAN CHINESE INTO TIBET.

WHAT ARE THE CHINESE TRYING TO ACHIEVE?

SMITH: I WOULD SAY TO GET THE REAL ANSWER TO THAT WE'D

NEED A FOURTH CHAIR HERE TODAY AND PERHAPS

SOMEONE FROM THE BEIJING EMBASSY. I WOULD POINT

OUT THOUGH, THAT WE FOUND A REAL GAP BETWEEN

WHAT IS PROFESSED BY THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT THAT

THEY WISH TO ATTAIN IN TIBET, WHICH IS

DEVELOPMENT THAT SHOWS RESPECT FOR THE UNIQUE

CULTURAL HERITAGE OF THE TIBETAN PEOPLE, AND

WHAT'S REALLY HAPPENING. FOR EXAMPLE, THE

TIBETAN PEOPLE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE GIVEN CERTAIN

ADVANTAGES IN TIBET THROUGH READING. THERE'S

SUPPOSEDLY SEPARATE EDUCATIONS WHERE THEY CAN

STUDY TIBETAN AND NOT NECESSARILY CHINESE, WHERE

THEY HAVE FAMILY PLANNING ADVANTAGES WHERE THEY

CAN HAVE MORE THAN ONE CHILD. AND IN FAIRNESS

TO THE BEIJING GOVERNMENT, THAT IS CARRIED OUT

TO A SMALL EXTENT, BUT THE TIBETAN LANGUAGE

STUDIES ARE ENDED AFTER EARLY YEARS, ELEMENTARY

SCHOOL. AND IN FACT, WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO

PRACTICE, THE TIBETAN PEOPLE ARE HEAVILY

DISCRIMINATED AGAINST IN THE WORKPLACE AND VERY

MUCH MARGINALIZED IN THE CAPITOL PARTICULARLY.

HOST: LET ME ASK GENDUN RINCHEN, WHAT DO YOU THINK

THE ULTIMATE OBJECTIVE OF CHINESE POLICY IN

TIBET IS?

RINCHEN: I FEEL OUT OF MY EXPERIENCE OF BEING IN TIBET

FOR TEN YEARS, THEIR ULTIMATE OBJECTIVE IS

CONVERT A LOT OF TIBET INTO A ZONE OF NUCLEAR

WASTE. THEY HAVE ALREADY STARTED DUMPING

NUCLEAR WASTE IN THE NORTHERN PART OF TIBET.

AND SECONDLY, THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DISCOVER

MANY MINERAL SOURCES. IN PARTICULAR, THEY HAVE

BEEN ABLE TO DISCOVER A DEPOSIT OF URANIUM. AND

IN CERTAIN REPORTS IT SAID THAT PERHAPS NOT IN

THE WHOLE WORLD BUT CERTAINLY IN ASIA, IT COULD

BE ONE OF THE HIGHEST DEPOSITS OF URANIUM.

HOST: OUTSIDE OF WHAT MATERIAL INTERESTS THEY MAY HAVE

IN THE TERRITORY, WHAT ABOUT THEIR ATTITUDE

TOWARD TIBETAN CULTURE, RELIGION, LANGUAGE?

RINCHEN: THE CHINESE PROPAGATE CERTAIN POLICIES WHICH

HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DECEIVE THE WESTERN

POLITICIANS, BUT BEING IN TIBET FOR TEN YEARS

SINCE 1985, I HAVE FOUND THAT THE CHINESE

GOVERNMENT HAS NO INTEREST IN TIBET AT ALL FOR

THE SAKE OF TIBETANS. THEIR MAIN INTEREST IS

HOW TO TAKE THE WEALTH OF TIBET OUT AND HOW TO

REHABILITATE THE CHINESE AND GET RID OF THE

TIBETANS.

HOST: ON THE PERSONAL SIDE, TELL US ABOUT YOUR ARREST

IN TIBET. WHEN WAS IT AND WHAT WERE YOU

ARRESTED FOR?

RINCHEN: AT THAT TIME I WAS TRYING TO DELIVER A STATEMENT

ON POLITICAL PRISONERS.

HOST: WHEN WAS THIS?

RINCHEN: IN 1993, MAY. AT THAT TIME I KNEW THAT THE

EUROPEAN UNION DELEGATION WAS GOING TO BE IN

TIBET ON MAY 16TH, 1993. AND I GOT ARRESTED ON

THE 13TH OF MAY, 1993. AND I GOT ROUNDED UP

WITH ONE-HUNDRED TIBETANS. SO I JUST HAPPENED

TO GET PICKED UP LIKE THAT. LATER ON, OF COURSE

THEY DIDN'T CHARGE IN PERSON, BUT THEY CAME OUT

SAYING WHEN THE EUROPEAN UNION DELEGATION

APPROACHED THEM FOR MY ARREST. THEY CAME DOWN

SAYING, "WELL, WE FOUND HIM DOING

COUNTER-REVOLUTIONARY ACTS AND [HE HAS] STOLEN

STATE SECRETS." SO THAT MEANT THEY COULD DO

ANYTHING WITH ME.

HOST: SO YOU WERE NEVER FORMALLY CHARGED?

RINCHEN: ACCORDING TO CHINESE LAW THEY DON'T CHARGE

ANYONE BEFORE A TRIAL IS BEING CARRIED OUT. SO

THEY CHARGE ONLY WHEN ONE IS TRIED.

HOST: AND WERE YOU TRIED?

RINCHEN: I WAS NEVER TRIED.

HOST: SO YOU WERE SIMPLY KEPT IN PRISON FOR HOW LONG?

RINCHEN: I WAS KEPT FOR EIGHT MONTHS.

HOST: AND RELEASED HOW?

RINCHEN: DURING MY EIGHT MONTHS OF DETENTION, I FACED

THREE MONTHS OF INTERROGATION. AND ON THE DAY

OF MY ARREST, TWO POLICE CAME AND THEY SAID,

"WELL, WE WORKED SO HARD FOR YOUR CASE AND YOU

KNOW THE GRAVITY OF YOUR MISTAKE. IF IT WOULD

HAVE BEEN SOMEBODY ELSE YOU VERY WELL KNOW WHAT

THE RESULT COULD BE. BUT IN YOUR CASE, WE

WORKED SO HARD AND TODAY WE GO TOGETHER DOWN AND

GET RELEASED."

HOST: AND WHAT TYPICALLY HAPPENS?

RINCHEN: BEFORE, HAVING SAID THAT, THEY SAID, "YOU HAVE

TO WRITE AN UNDERTAKING SAYING THAT I REPENT FOR

THE PAST MISTAKE AND I WILL NEVER REPEAT IT

AGAIN." SO I KNEW THAT THIS COULD BE USED

AGAINST ME IF I GOT REARRESTED. AND JUST

BECAUSE OF MY STATEMENT MAYBE I COULD BE

SENTENCED FOR THREE TO FIVE YEARS.

GYARI: GENDUN RINCHEN'S CASE IS VERY SPECIAL BECAUSE, I

THINK THERE WAS TREMENDOUS. . . . I MEAN FIRST

OF ALL IT SHOWS THAT INTERNATIONAL PRESSURE DOES

WORK. YOU KNOW BECAUSE SOMETIMES, IT DOESN'T.

BUT IN HIS CASE THERE WAS A TREMENDOUS

OUTPOURING OF CONCERN BY INTERNATIONAL

ORGANIZATIONS AND ALSO GENDUN RINCHEN AS A TOUR

GUIDE HAS BEFRIENDED MANY FRIENDS. SO YOU KNOW

I THINK IT WAS VERY UNUSUAL THAT HE WAS NOT

TORTURED. IN THE CASE OF OTHERS, FIRST OF ALL

THERE IS NO TRIAL. BUT QUITE OFTEN, AS THE

STATE DEPARTMENT REPORT CLEARLY SAYS THAT THERE

WILL BE TREMENDOUS BRUTALITY AND TORTURE. AND

IF I CAN JUST ADD ONE MORE ABOUT THE CHINESE

GOVERNMENT'S DESIGN. YOU SEE IT'S VERY CLEAR.

IN FACT, WE HAVE A PUBLISHED, THE INTERNATIONAL

CAMPAIGN FOR TIBET, DOCUMENTS, AUTHENTIC CHINESE

SECRET DOCUMENTS WHICH CLEARLY SAYS THAT THEIR

DESIGN IS TO TOTALLY UPROOT THE TIBETAN IDENTITY

AND ALSO BESIDES THE MINERALS AND THE OTHER

THINGS THAT GENDUN RINCHEN MENTIONED, CHINA ALSO

HAS DUE POLITICAL INTERESTS. CHINA IS -- THIS

IS SOMETHING THAT I HOPE THAT PEOPLE IN THE WEST

BECOME MORE AWARE OF -- CHINA HAS EXPANSIONIST

DESIGNS. IT IS NOW BECOMING EVIDENT. TIBET

SITS RIGHT THERE IN THE HEART OF ASIA. FROM THE

VERY FIRST DAY THAT CHINA INVADED TIBET IT WAS

NOT JUST FOR THE TERRITORIAL GAIN, BUT OF FAR

BIGGER EXPANSIONIST DESIGN THAT THE CHINESE

HAVE. AND WE HAVE PUBLISHED, AS WE SAID, AN

AUTHENTIC CHINESE DOCUMENT CLEARLY INDICATING

THEIR DESIGN. THE POPULATION TRANSFER IS ALSO

GOVERNMENT POLICY.

HOST: BACK ON THE SUBJECT OF HUMAN RIGHTS, I WANT TO

MENTION THAT THE STATE DEPARTMENT, OF COURSE, IS

NOT THE ONLY ORGANIZATION ISSUING INFORMATION ON

HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES IN TIBET AND THE AMNESTY

INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION PUTS OUT AN EXTENSIVE

REPORT ON THOSE HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES INCLUDING

MANY OF THE INSTANCES YOU HAVE REPORTED UPON.

BUT WHAT STRUCK ME ARE THE NUMBER OF POLITICAL

PRISONERS WHO ARE RELEASED WHEN THEIR HEALTH HAS

DETERIORATED SO BADLY FROM TORTURE, BEATINGS,

PRIVATIONS THAT THEY DIE WITHIN SEVERAL MONTHS

OF THEIR RELEASE. IS THIS SOMETHING FROM YOUR

EXPERIENCE IN PRISON, GENDUN RINCHEN, THAT YOU

FOUND?

RINCHEN: IT IS NOT ONLY THAT PEOPLE AFTER BEING RELEASED

DIE. HARDLY ANY TIBETAN WHO GETS DETAINED

BECAUSE OF TRYING TO EXPRESS THEIR TRUE FEELING

ABOUT BEING A TIBETAN, NONE SURVIVES FROM

TORTURE. AND THE TORTURE IS BEING CARRIED OUT

FROM THE TIME OF ARREST IN THE POLICE STATION,

ESPECIALLY DURING THE INTERROGATION, AND A LOT

OF PLACES PEOPLE ARE LOSING THEIR VISION, THEIR

HEARING, RIBS BEING BROKEN, EVEN ARMS BEING

BROKEN OR LEGS BEING BROKEN, AND I EVEN HAVE

CASES WHERE A TIBETAN HAS BEEN PARALYZED FOR

THEIR WHOLE LIFE AND IT TOOK PLACE DURING THE

INTERROGATION.

HOST: IS THERE ANYTHING THE UNITED STATES CAN DO OTHER

THAN CALL ATTENTION TO THESE ABUSES, MR. SMITH?

SMITH: SURE, THERE IS A LOT THAT THE UNITED STATES CAN

DO. THERE'S A LOT THAT WE ARE DOING. WE

CERTAINLY AREN'T SATISFIED WITH WHERE THINGS

STAND TODAY. I'D SAY THAT DURING THE LAST YEAR

THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION HAS AT THE VERY

HIGHEST LEVELS, AND I MEAN PRESIDENT CLINTON,

VICE PRESIDENT GORE THE SECRETARY OF STATE HAVE

IN THEIR DIALOGUE WITH THEIR CHINESE

COUNTERPARTS RAISED THE ISSUE OF TIBET, RAISED

THE HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, STRONGLY URGED THAT

THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT RESUME A DIALOGUE WITH

THE DALAI LAMA WITHOUT PRECONDITIONS. I WOULD

SAY THAT WE'VE ALSO DONE A NUMBER OF OTHER

THINGS. WE GIVE MONEY FOR REPATRIATION OF

TIBETANS, HELPING THEM OUT IN NEPAL, WE SPONSOR

THE VOICE OF AMERICA.

HOST: WHICH CARRIES, I BELIEVE, THE ONLY TIBETAN

LANGUAGE SERVICE IN THE INTERNATIONAL RADIO

WORLD. I'M AFRAID THAT WE'VE RUN OUT OF TIME

AND I'D LIKE TO THANK OUR GUESTS: GARE SMITH,

DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE FOR

DEMOCRACY, HUMAN RIGHTS AND LABOR; LODI GYARI

FROM THE INTERNATIONAL CAMPAIGN FOR TIBET; AND

TIBETAN HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVIST, GENDUN RINCHEN,

FOR JOINING ME THIS WEEK TO DISCUSS HUMAN RIGHTS

IN TIBET. THIS ROBERT REILLY, FOR ON THE LINE.

14-Mar-96 4:19 PM EST (2119 UTC)

Source: Voice of America