By Mayank Chhaya

[Photo] The seat of meditation of the Dalai Lama at the main temple near Dharamsala.

[Photo] An artist's impression of the present Dalai Lama, the 14th since the title came to be conferred late in the 16th century. (Photos: Mayank Chhaya)

[Photo] The Dalai Lama, left, during an interview with India Abroad's New Delhi based South Asia chief correspondent Mayank Chhaya, right, in Mcleod Ganj, Himachal Pradesh. Chhaya travelled to Mcleod Ganj specially for the interview.

McLEOD GANJ --

The Dalai Lama, the Tibetan spiritual leader, says the "force of democracy" in China could lead to the resolution of the four-decade-old Tibet issue "in a few years' time." He also says that India is a "little bit overcautious" about Tibet, even though it is the only nation that can keep the balance in Asia.

The 60-year-old leader of the Tibetan Buddhists, who has lived in exile in this mountainside hamlet since 1959, said much has changed in China in the last 20 years that makes him hopeful about Tibet.

"No force can stop the democratic movement because it is natural," he says. "The democratic movement and economic development in China make me very hopeful. While the economic development is officially sanctioned, the democratic movement is under tight control."

Asked specifically if he would be able to fix a time frame in which Tibet, as he and Tibetans want it, would become a reality, the spiritual leader says, "I think in a few years' time."

For a man whose title literally means "an ocean of wisdom," the Dalai Lama displays touching simplicity. The 1989 winner of the Nobel Peace Prize thinks it is "presumptuous" to describe him as an "intellectual." He reserves unqualified praise for India and Indians, especially the way they have hosted the Tibetan refugees since 1959. However, he says India underestimates its strengths while dealing with China on an issue like Tibet.

He spoke to India Abroad in a 40-minute interview after inaugurating the Shoton, the festival of Tibetan opera known as Lhamo, at an institute situated 7,000 feet up in the Himalayas.

Excerpts from the interview:

Q. Has there been any development in China that would give you more hope about Tibet now than in 1959 when you exiled yourself to India?

A. The democratic movement and economic development in China make me very hopeful. While the economic development is officially sanctioned, the democratic movement is under tight control. But no force can stop the democratic movement because it is natural. So, compared to 15 to 20 years ago, much has changed in China. Dissidents can come out of China. The families of the jailed dissidents can publicly appeal to the courts. These are clear indications that things are changing.

Q. Are you able to fix a time frame in which Tibet, as you and Tibetans want it, would become a reality?

A. I think in a few years' time.

Q. How would you describe your last 37 years in India in the context of your struggle for Tibet?

A. It is sad that there has been destruction in Tibet during the last 37 years that we have been here as refugees. But on the other hand, we are one of the most successful refugee communities who are engaged in the preservation of Tibetan culture and identity. We have made some contribution in terms of making the outside world aware of Tibet. All this has been possible because of the Indian government's as well as Indian people's help and support.

Q. How do you view India's policy on Tibet while dealing with China?

A. Given that the Indian government had laid down a certain policy about Tibet in the 1950s and the fact of China's importance internationally, India's policy and attitude are very good. Almost all Indian leaders deep down have very strong sympathy and concern about Tibet. India's help to the Tibetan refugees has been the most commendable. It has helped in the maximum way in spite of their own difficulty, particularly in education. While millions of Indian children do not have proper education facilities, Tibetan children have been very fortunate in that they have good education facilities. Indian villages surrounding us are poor, educationally as well as economically, while our settlement is better off.

Sometimes we feel embarrassed by this.

Q. What do you think about India's stand on Tibet politically?

A. On the political level the Indian government has recognized Tibet as an autonomous region of China. That is my approach too. I am seeking a genuine self-rule. Of course, many Tibetans feel very strongly that we are an independent nation and we have the legitimate right to complete independence. So the government of India's recognition of Tibet as an autonomous region of China is not acceptable to these people. That thinking would also have some foundation. But we have to look at it from various angles. I think the Indian government's policy under the circumstances is very right and appropriate.

Q. Do you believe that India can do much more about Tibet given its strength as a regional power?

A. India can do more about the human rights issues and the danger to Tibetan culture. Sometimes I do feel India's attitude towards China, especially over Tibet, is a little bit overcautious. Indian leaders sometimes fail to realize India's strengths. It is a big country. Historically, Indian culture has been quite widespread. The whole of Southeast Asia and East Asia came under the influence of Indian culture. Buddhism and Hinduism have spread far away, including to Japan, Korea and Central Asia. India's culture is adopted by non-Indians very faithfully, for instance, the Tibetans, Mongols, to some extent the Chinese, right up to Bali.

The Chinese culture, on the other hand, is only carried by the Chinese themselves, like Calcutta's Chinatown, and not by the non-Chinese. This is except for Chinese food of course. The non-Chinese do not appreciate much about Chinese culture.

If you look at Hindu philosophy, that too has been adopted by so many non-Indians. India has contributed so much to humanity. Buddhism chose this place and not China. I found many Indians in America and Europe who are so brilliant. In science, too, Indians have contributed so much. These are India's strengths. Indian leaders often fail to recognize India's strengths. There is no need for India to be afraid. Many of my friends in Southeast Asia say they look to India. Of course, they feel somewhat uncomfortable because of China's big size and influence. India is the only nation that can keep the balance in this whole Asian continent.

Q. How would you describe the U.S. government's treatment of Tibet?

A. Quite like India, the U.S can do more but under the current circumstances there are limitations.

Q. Do you think part of the Tibet-China conflict is also rooted in the incompatibility between Buddhism and Communism?

A. There was once a clear feeling among Tibetans that the Communists were destroyers of Buddha Dharma, but at the same time there have also been intellectuals who have been strong Communists but at the same time staunch Tibetan patriots. They personally do not have much faith in Buddhism. They believe that Marxism is the proper ideology. There are some Buddhists like myself who have some attraction for Marxism insomuch as it means social equity. This view is shared by some Indian and Sri Lankan Buddhists. But there are people who still think in terms of Buddhism-Marxism conflict. All Tibetans and many others are against the Marxist totalitarian system and not necessarily Marxism.

Q. Do you think self-rule is going to be feasible under the present circumstances?

A. At the moment the Chinese government maintains a harsh attitude. But I am hopeful. The recent Taiwanese elections have had a tremendous impact on many Chinese people. Maybe it is the turning point. (President Lee Teng-Hui scored a landslide victory in Taiwan's first elections to the Presidency). Once the overall Chinese attitude becomes more flexible and reasonable, then the middle-way approach that I propose would be understood better. It is feasible.

I feel under the present circumstances the Tibetan nation with its unique culture is really facing exinction. It is very serious not just for the six million Tibetan people but for the whole of Central Asia, northern India and in the long run millions of Chinese. That is because the Tibetan Buddhist culture is a peaceful and compassionate culture. It has to survive to benefit millions. My main responsbility is to protect this culture and nation. In order to protect all that we need genuine self-rule.

One Chinese, who controls the Tibetan culture, education, evnironment, may be very sincere, but how can he properly handle all these without proper knowledge. Self-rule is mainly for the protection and survival of Tibetan culture. My responsbility will be fulfilled with that. If the next generation feels truly happy and satisfied to work with the Chinese and so does China, then it is fine. It is not my responsibility.

Q. How important do you think is the issue of the imposition of the Panchen Lama by Beijing?

A. Looking at the Tibetan issue as a whole, then the Panchen Lama issue is not important. It is one of the issues. It is one of the symptoms of the present political malaise. My main anxiety is the safety of my little Panchen Lama, who is seven years old and is the youngest political prisoner (in the world). Once the overall Chinese attitude changes, the issue of the Panchen Lama would also be resolved.