An interview with Marco Pannella by Pierangelo Sapegno

ABSTRACT: On his return from the Croatian city of Osijek, for months bombed by the putschist army of former Yugoslavia, where he wore the uniform of the defence forces, Marco Pannella underlines the radical difference between Gandhian nonviolence and traditional pacifism, denounces the responsibility of the European leading class which has allowed the Serbian aggression and talks about the upcoming political elections in Italy.

(LA STAMPA, Friday 10 January 1992)

Have you ever seen Pannella in uniform? He's stiff as a ramrod, his look proud and officer-like. If he has to give an order he shouts clear and loud. He wears green suspenders over his camouflaged shirt, and pulls on them every now and then. The interpreters were bewildered, they wondered whether they were part of the uniform. Who knows. Asked whether he wanted to wear the Croatian uniform also at the funeral of the Italian soldiers killed by the Mig he answers "no, I would have worn it only if there hadn't been representatives of the government of Zagreb".

And yet, the picture of Marco Pannella at the front with the soldiers of Croatia, the picture of an antimilitarist forced to wear a uniform has circulated worldwide.

Q: Mr. Pannella, don't you this choice could seem excessive?

A: I could answer that question by saying that Gandhian nonviolence or Tolstoy's nonviolence have always been and appeared excessive because of their prophetic nature. I could insist on the abyss which separates nonviolent pacifism from the more traditional and widespread pacifism which politically has been an involuntary but detrimental ally, throughout this century, of all the worst totalitarian and violent events. But the main thing is we are trying to organize the party and the army of nonviolence and democracy throughout the world. Moreover, the Croatian army barely exists, it is forming itself in a merely defensive function, with democratic and republican discipline. In such conditions, its uniform should be honoured and also subtracted to the monopoly of those who believe in military violence and militarism.

Q: Enzo Bettiza wrote on "La Stampa" that the Italian pacifist organizations have been largely absent to this moment, with the exception of the isolated Pannella, who courageously does his part...

Q: I am not isolated. The Radical Party is the party that collected 700.000 signatures for the referendums, so there is no talk of isolation. The pacifists are isolated, but in fairness it is true that this time there is censorship on their positions.

Q: A Serbian soldier fighting with the Croats in the trench of Osijek asked you this question: why is mother Europe abandoning us now that communism is collapsing in every part of the world?

A: Because this Europe is not yet (or no longer) the Europe of his and my dreams. Genetically speaking, it is the fruit of the ruling class in Rome, Paris, London, of the Europe of shame and of the tragedy of the '30s, divided between the vile, stupid, corrupt, suicidal and undemocratic policy of Daladier, Laval, Chamberlain and the League of Nations on the one hand, and the intolerant, criminal, fanatic policy of Nazism, fascism and communism on the other.

Q: Stupid and corrupt politicians. Are they really all that way?

A: Intellectually corrupt, politically stupid and incompetent: this could apply also to Mitterrand, but to keep to the Italian bedlam, the names are of all those who have contributed, over the decades, from the government and the opposition, in producing the occupation of Sicily, Calabria, Campania and of the cities on the part of an army of clients and servants-masters; the Somalian and Ethiopian tragedies; a consolidated public debt; the despicable support given to the putschists of Belgrade. Gianni De Michelis, unfortunately for the Socialist Party and for us, is a name which should be entered in the list with absolute conviction.

Q: In your opinion, what is the most ambiguous position of our politicians?

A: Apart from Germany, the Left and the centre of the other countries, and the ruling class generally, believed they could continue carrying on their dirty business as if this necessarily had the dignity of realpolitik. Facts will deny them ever more clearly.

Q: Let us imagine a more or less absurd hypothesis. If you had been foreign minister, would you have allowed the members of your party to go to the front in uniform?

A: If one of us had been foreign minister of our country, this would have meant a progress of democracy in Italy, to the detriment of party power. With a public opinion correctly informed by us and by others, the whole crisis wouldn't have taken place. The absurdity thing, allow me to say so, is not the hypothesis of a radical foreign minister, but of today's ministers and their parties.

Q: Let's step back a little. Which is the most vivid memory of your permanence in Osijek?

A: Believe me when I say here in Italy, every day, every hour, I have to acquire as many memories. Let's say those trenches of mud on New Year's Eve, flood-lit like Naples, but by very different fire-crackers, with that wonderful starry night and the words, the kisses, the silence, the pain and the joy with which the population of Osijek greeted us, with the party's symbol, Gandhi, suddenly transformed by them into an icon in the trenches: this is a good memory, of the kind that makes you live without feeling too ashamed of yourself.

Q: Pannella, let's talk about Italy, the elections and your party. In what list will Pannella be running?

A: I have no idea. The intellectual and faintly moral temptation is that of not running at all. The country, what it is, doesn't want me, doesn't want us? Too bad for them. We are a potentiality of government and efficiency feared by all those who are in power today. It is an individual more than a political fear. Legitimating this foul play as a democratic confrontation has been difficult enough for me, and I have often explicitly tried not to do so. Our, my reality, is that we are a sort of supply of wisdom and force for the country. As for the rest: do what you must, and happen what may.

Q: Well, at least you can cheer up: soon your party will be more Croatian than Italian...

A: It already is more Rumanian, Russian, Ukrainian, Czechoslovak, Rom....In Zagreb, the head of the government Gregoric, the vice Prime Minister Tomac, dozens of parliamentarians and other ministers, mayors and parliamentarians from different cities have joined the Radical Party. But without a much greater force here, here in the first place, it will all be too fragile. This is the subject to be discussed at our Italian congress this week, which will no doubt be a clandestine congress, in its reality, for the Italian people.